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Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
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Amy Starecheski
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Samuel Brooks
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https://motthavenhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=Brooks_Samuel_20190611.xml
OHMS Object Text
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5.4 Brooks_Samuel_20190611 1:57:31 Columbia Oral History MA Program Samuel Brooks Amy Starecheski Brooks_Samuel_20190611 1:|1(11)|23(10)|32(3)|42(9)|52(8)|64(3)|74(12)|83(17)|93(4)|101(8)|111(9)|122(2)|134(9)|144(2)|154(7)|164(10)|176(2)|185(10)|197(12)|210(5)|219(2)|229(2)|239(15)|248(12)|259(2)|270(12)|281(2)|292(7)|301(16)|317(6)|328(15)|340(2)|351(8)|362(14)|374(2)|388(15)|404(8)|417(6)|428(6)|441(8)|453(3)|463(13)|478(9)|491(4)|504(8)|516(6)|527(13)|541(8)|554(7)|566(4)|577(15)|591(8)|602(3)|616(7)|628(14)|640(2)|651(8)|664(9)|677(2)|687(9)|697(12)|716(6)|737(5)|749(5)|761(10)|772(14)|786(13)|797(16)|807(2)|818(3)|828(6)|841(14)|853(10)|878(6)|890(3)|901(7)|918(4)|929(2)|941(13)|954(15)|973(15)|984(14)|997(6)|1010(11)|1025(4)|1036(5)|1049(8)|1063(11)|1075(8)|1086(8)|1099(11)|1111(3)|1122(2)|1133(4)|1142(13)|1154(12)|1171(8)|1182(2)|1194(13)|1207(13)|1218(10)|1230(12)|1243(2)|1257(7)|1268(3)|1280(2)|1295(4)|1306(11)|1316(12)|1328(10)|1342(10)|1356(7)|1372(4)|1383(3)|1395(4)|1406(6)|1425(4) 0 SoundCloud audio < ; iframe width=" ; 100%" ; height=" ; 300" ; scrolling=" ; no" ; frameborder=" ; no" ; allow=" ; autoplay" ; src=" ; https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/763369384& ; color=%23ff5500& ; auto_play=false& ; hide_related=false& ; show_comments=true& ; show_user=true& ; show_reposts=false& ; show_teaser=true& ; visual=true" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; 0 Introductions and early years President and founder of the Mott Haven Historic District Association, long time Mott Haven resident. Born in Honduras in 1962. Lived pretty modestly, family owned their own home. Had six brothers, a sister and extended family with him. Parents born in Honduras, but family got to Honduras by way of England and then Grenada, before ending up in the Panama Canal. Grandfather moved the family to Honduras, that's where his mother was born. Sam was 10 or 12 in 1974 when the family relocated from Honduras. His mother had come ahead, left him and siblings behind - one of the oldest brothers were responsible for cooking and the other was responsible for taking care of the younger siblings. Oldest brother was in the military, had arrived in the USA two years prior - was the family's path to the US. Flew to the USA on a 747, growing up had always imagined things about the United States. People always said " ; oh when you guys get there man you could walk up and down the road, you gonna find bicycles, that people just put out, you'll find refrigerators, you'll find shoes and clothing." ; - myths he believed as a child. She the family arrived in the US they went straight to New Orleans and from New Orleans to one of his aunts. Arrived in the South Bronx July 14 1974. 266 Moving to the South Bronx/Hotel in Midtown after the fire Moved to Simpson Street, mother and sister had found the apartment. Sister had come over two years prior, she was the middle child in a family of five brothers. Eight months later, height of the Bronx is Burning, apartment was burned down. Neighborhood kids who would out the candle on the 6th floor of the building would know who was coming in/out of the building - would bang on the door to get people out of the building. Sister was still in the room, she was athletic - couldn't get out because of the smoke and ended up jumping out from the second floor. Red Cross were there and they were relocated to a hotel in Midtown. Very nice hotel, family had a three bedroom suite across from the Empire State building. Would eat in the hotel restaurant, mother had a hot plate in the room. 479 Moving to Mott Haven Moved to 140th between St Anne's and Cypress. Area had problems with heroin, lots of abandoned buildings and addicts. Predominantly Puerto Rican neighbourhood, didn't come across many Dominicans until he went to high school. Spanish accent would change depending on who he was around. A lot of competing drug dealers, poisoning clients - learned the term " ; shooting gallery" ; Recalls one Sunday morning going to church on Southern Boulevard. Left the apartment, heard there were five junkies in the abandoned building next to theirs, dead because their heroin had been cut with rat poison and had collapsed on the pavement. Family just stepped over the bodies and went to church. Spoke Spanish and English growing up. Went to the local elementary school, and then Alexander Berger Junior High School. Loved playing in the projects because they had an elevator. Talks about coming back to the area as a homeowner, people recognize him. Went to South Bronx High School, class of 1981 - the " ; ultimate" ; 751 South Bronx High School Was in the second graduating class of South Bronx High School. Came to the USA with one goal in mind - to get an education. Some of his friends got involved in gangs, drugs, and some of them prison etc. Sam wanted to go to high school, didn't want to join the military, wanted to go to college. Applied to lots of schools because he was financially disadvantaged, but academically advantaged - applied to Fordham University and all the SUNYs. Didn't want to go too far away, but far enough away that he could stay on campus and have that experience. Sister became a registered nurse, older brother also went to college, Bronx Community College, and graduated from Lehman. Other brother also went to another state university, and his other brother worked in the garment district. Last brother was a chemist at Lincoln Hospital. All siblings did ok career wise - didn't " ; go off the deep end" ; . Sam went to Stony Brook - there with the intention of going to medical school. Went to South Bronx High school with famous photographer Joe Canzo, took lots of pictures of Sam as a teenager, kept all the negatives. School had a diverse student body - one white kid in class, mostly black, Puerto Rican and Dominican students. No cell phones, played Atari on TV. 1023 Graduating from South Bronx High School Graduated from South Bronx High School but also got a specialized high school degree from there as well. worked in Lincoln Hospital in the emergency room area - saw a lot of trauma and drug overdose. Went to Stony Brook on scholarship for a six week summer program. Deliberately didn't want to room with anyone who looked like him, wanted someone different. Lived in G Quad. Was a psychology major - got a Bachelor's of Science in psychology and also did the pre-med requirements. Took his MCATS, was advised to do a masters first and he didn't want to. Changed his mind on graduation, opted to get a job on Wall Street in 1986. Graduated and came back to the Bronx. Mother had moved to Harlem. Was there for a little bit before moving to Washington Heights with some college friends for two years before coming back to the Bronx, to Co-Op city. Later made the choice to come back to Mott Haven. Working flipping houses for a colleague at CitGroup. When he graduated from Stony Brook, bought a suit and a copy of the NYT and just looked and saw who was hiring - got a job at PaineWebber. Worked as a registration agent. 1320 Wall Street Worked as a registration agent - would register stock brokers who were moving from one brokerage firm to the other. then from there, went to another another job doing mergers and acquisitions - doing a lot of tracking statistics of companies that were being bought, used to repackage and sell it back to the investment banks. Then there was a downturn in the market. Most of his friends had no idea what he did for a living, topic never came up - people just knew he had a job downtown. Left Wall Street and Citigroup in 1996 and went to Morgan Stanley - doing work in investment research and in investment banking. Lost his job and went to work for the Department of Education as a parent coordinator. was an opportunity for the parents to have an advocate in the school besides the the guidance counselor. Somebody that will listen to the parents and take a parent's concerns to the principal and address whatever the situation was. Newly created position, did that for a year. Then the government came out with the " ; no child left behind" ; program where they were providing stipends for parents to be able to take after school tutoring. Sam was approached by a tuition company, took a job as Director of student enrollment. His job as director consisted of recruiting students to the program. Managed to ge the company to relocated from Boston to Fordham Plaza, cheaper.- moved and brought all their economic benefit to the area. Left that company for a similar one, worked in an office in Midtown and was responsible for the whole operation. Convinced them to move to the South Bronx - to Willis avenue. Sam brought all the staff - hired everyone local. Was with that company until owners decided to sell the company. Went back to Citigroup, has been there ever since. 1748 Property changes in the area Has always been conscious of change in the neighborhood - people are more well-educated. Made the conscious choice to return to the area as a homeowner. Manhattan got prohibitively expensive, people started buying in Harlem until they couldn't afford Harlem anymore, spillover into the south bronx. started noticing newer people coming into the neighborhood and they were coming in as homeowners, buying on the same block on 140 and these were people that lived in Harlem and they didn't want to be left out of this process again. People buying vast parcels of land and flipping them against the rising chorus of discontent displaced people. Sam always engages with the developers, believes in free enterprise. if it's going to be a residential you just bring in the people that can afford that rent and more than likely it's not going to be the people in the same community. Rent is south bronx for a one bedroom is $1500, unheard of ten years ago. Sam has a passion for preservation. many people have moved to other state, the people in the neighborhood know on 139 and 140 are people who have the means to be able to pay the rent. Originally a German, Irish, Eastern Jewish neighborhood in the 1850s - coming back full circle. Sam views himself as an entrepreneur by nature. 2227 The house in Honduras House was was a four family wooden house. Sam's family lived on the second floor, and had the larger part of it and had a tenant on the side and two apartments on the ground floor. Grandfather owned a third of the block, gave it to his three children. The hospital where Sam was born was born called the D'Antoni hospital. Never had the opportunity to meet his father, passed away when his mother was 8 months pregnant with him - he was 36. mother was a very young widow and remained so. the way she survived was she used to lend money. Family weren't rich but owned own property and had a maid that would come in and do laundry. Father died of a blood infection after having teeth removed. Brothers were always very protective of him. Family kept the land, became very valuable 20-25 years ago when people started discovering Honduras. Town became a hub for commerce. When his mother died, they tore down the house and rebuilt it out of concrete. On the very top there's a huge four bedroom, two bath apartment and then downstairs there's two apartments. Decided to sell 10 years ago after violence in the area got really bad - still in the process of trying to sell. Still want to own something in Central America, thinking the island of Roatán - somewhere the kids can go safely and come back without having to go to the mainland. 2561 Family's choice to move to America/ Sam's Mother Family wanted to pursue a better life so moved to USA through education. One of his aunts lived in San Diego, used used to do a lot of sewing. In the 60s she managed to open up a sewing factory. Aunt wanted Sam to come live with her after his father died as she had no children of her own. Mother refused. Mother was very religious, never called her mommy, called her by her first name - Enel. Wasn't typical, family was just a bit different. That was Caribbean life, went to English school there. Family went to Spanish and English speaking school. Family were all anxious to get to the USA. Didn't matter that it was. the South Bronx, could have easily been Brooklyn or Queens. 1061 Intervale Avenue. That's where a lot of the English speaking Hondurans would come and then they would congregate there - they would go to Bathgate on 183rd Street. That was the community. Building they lived in is no longer there, new townhouses. 2948 First impressions of the South Bronx Was 12 when they moved to the neighborhood, area was poor but didn't care. Had to adapt quickly in school because his reading wasn't up to par, failed a lot of classes. Came in at 5th or 6th grade, struggle for the first year. Teachers told his older brother Sam should be in a bilingual class - brother disagreed, felt it would be self-defeating. Family had discipline and respect. By 8pm every night, Sam had to go upstairs and do homework. Had more freedom in Honduras, didn't have locks on the doors there. Was adopted by the neighborhood, the drug dealers knew who you were and would leave the kids alone - knew they weren't runners for other dealers. No one in the family ever had any issues with the law. Didn't have that path. Only once he went to college did he notice class. Other kids had dads who were making $70000, Sam couldn't wrap his head about that. Classmates were curious about him coming from the south bronx, wanted to know what it was like. Why he went to college - to interact with other people. Glad he volunteers in preservation - but he's not going to be seen at pickets. Gives example of Fresh Direct, was a done deal and picketing wasn't going to change that. No different from Columbia University - free enterprise and there's nothing that can be done. 15 years ago his boss used to live in Connecticut. Told Sam to go buy him a house in Mott Haven, sight unseen, buys house in cash on 139th. Daughters lived there when the went to college - thought it was a dump. Sam showed them what his house looked like, showed them the potential. Now they want to live in the area because its trendy. 3693 Real Estate conversations about Mott Haven His company has always ranked highly in real estate, people started talking about Mott Haven 10 or 12 years ago because of the way the market was trending. Headquarters was in Greenwich - in 1996 no one wanted to live in that area. Started to have the same for the South Bronx, started realizing that the Bronx begins where Manhattan ends. During the Harlem Renaissance people were buying townhomes and started realizing that it was becoming prohibitively expensive. Late 80s - no one wanted to buy anything North of 96th street, " ; pioneers" ; who would go ten blocks further up and bring their friends. Real estate people started to realize there was money to be made in Mott Haven. 10 years ago people coming into the area started to change, 5 years ago started to see more developers. Now local, small realtors selling townhouses getting overrun by likes of Corcoran Douglas Elliman. Agents now live in the Bronx. 3958 Pressure to sell Sam's immediate neighbor has lived in the area for 40 years, tells Sam, " ; I get just as much offers as you do but I'm not going anywhere." ; Young man at the end of the block next to the school, father was a Vietnam veteran, died and left house to son. Son was the youngest, 25 years old. Never went anywhere, hung out on the corner. Sam remembers telling him " ; young man, when you speak to your sister just make sure that you do not accept any offers less than say 800,000 dollars." ; . Jewish gentleman would walk around the neighbourhood with a suitcase oaf cash and would knock on doors to see who would sell. Knocks on the kids door, he sells for $450,000. Splits with his sister, buys a BMW. Guy that bought the house flipped it for 720,000, new owners renovated and rented it, could get more than 1 million now. thinks it's inevitable, means people can go live somewhere else less expensive. 4298 Games as a kid Played street games - ring the leader, kick the can, spin the bottle, tag. Doesn't remember most of it. Doesn't remember knowing any obese children - everything they did was so physical. Learned how to do backhand springs onto mattresses in abandoned buildings. Didn't go upstairs and play - that was just for homework and bed. New park very popular with today's children. 4420 Mother's job/death Mother worked as a home attendant for 10 years. Took care of one person until they passed away and she was assigned to another person, never earned more than $14000 a year. When she died she had saved $30,000 for her kids. Bought her burial plot at Moshulu. Died of pulmonary embolism, was slightly overweight. She was feeling pain in her leg - went to Lincoln Hospital and was told her was fire. Went home and suffered a massive heart attack, Sam's brother (the chemist) did CPR and saved her. Ambulance came for her, she had another one and couldn't be saved. Sam knew something had happened when he saw the ambulance. Sam got an attorney, wanted an autopsy - sued Lincoln Hospital. Settled with them for 250,000 for wrongful misdiagnosis. 4596 Growing up in Mott Haven Integrating into the neighborhood as Central Americans was relatively easy as it was Spanish-speaking. Contrasts the discipline he had as a child with that of his neighbors. Comments on church participation. 4742 Firewatching Describes the prevalence of building fires and the practice of " ; firewatching" ; . When a fire was detected, residents would stand on their roof to identify where it is—and later collect scrap metal from the burned-out buildings. Metal came from bath tubs, radiators. 4856 Redlining and real estate Redlining made it difficult for residents to access capital, mortgages and real estate. Speaks of established Black people from the south who were able to purchase property in Harlem. Brooks began flipping houses in the early 2000s with two colleagues. Speaks of the cyclical nature of the housing market and the increasing desirability of Harlem. Speaks of the process of gentrification and its seeming inevitability. 5427 The evolution 140th Street When Brooks moved to 140th Street as a kid, it was predominantly Puerto Ricans and African Americans. The block was quiet ; '70s crime happened on streets north of 140th. Streets just below and above were torn down in the '60s to make way for a school and a park. Describes single-room occupancy buildings. Brooks' home had 18 rooms. In the last 12-13 years prior to the interview, professionals (ex. a doctor, a diplomat) have purchased the homes and conducted major renovations. 5765 Rules, regulations, and displacement Speaks of newcomers' arrogance ; those who are not mindful of existing residents and customs. Speaks of short-term rentals appearing in the garden-level units and how they might be displacing more affordable long-term units. 5964 Weekends on 140th Brooks describes summer weekends on Sundays. A Bronx historical tour group comes through the neighborhood and is on his block by 11:00. Brooks waits for them and gives them a talk on the history and evolution of the block. Introduces the term " ; whiplash block" ; : the block is so beautiful that passersby get whiplash when they see it. Brooks sits on his stoop and people-watches. He notices groups of white visitors walking comfortably through the block, which was not a common occurrence in past decades. Brooks frequents Mott Haven Bar & ; Grill, and describes the increasing number of entertainment and dining options in the neighborhood. 6380 Wife and kids Brooks' youngest and his son have spent most of the lives in the Bronx. Brooks met his wife through his sister, who is friends with his wife's sister. Their children went to Catholic school and then Spellman High School. His son attended Lehman and his daughter, City College. His daughter is waiting to sit the NYPD exam. Their home had " ; good bones" ; but needed renovation. They demolished the entire top floor first. Amy Starecheski: Great. It' ; s so nice to do this. If you need more room you can move that out. It' ; s nice to do this at my house where I can have it all set up. Samuel Brooks: Exactly. Amy Starecheski: It' ; s always a lot of like fussing with the equipment. Okay. So this is Amy Starecheski interviewing Samuel Brooks, President and founder of the Mott Haven Historic District Association, long time Mott Haven resident, for the Mott Haven Oral History Project. Today is June 11, 2018 and we are in my apartment. And so can you start off by telling--say your name and tell me where and when you were born. And then just tell me a bit about your early life, where you grew up, what your family was like. You can go as long as you want, I' ; ll jump in and ask questions if you get stuck. Samuel Brooks: Thank you. I actually was born in Honduras, Central America on September 13, 1962. Lived there, you know pretty modestly--owned our own home. Six brothers and a sister and cousins and extended family so we literally been in Honduras for a while, for decades where my mother and father were actually born. But we got to Honduras by way of England and then we went to Grenada and then we ended up in the Panama Canal. And then my grandfather eventually moved further up to Honduras and that' ; s where my mother was born. And I think I was probably about ten or twelve, I don' ; t remember exactly. But we ultimately ended up relocating the immediate family from Honduras in 1974. Prior to that, two years earlier my mother came ahead and literally left ah five of us in Honduras. So one of my brothers, the older one, one of the oldest was responsible for the cooking. The other one was responsible for taking care of us and imagine me as a 10-year-old, and my mother already in the United States. Our older brother had also gotten here two years prior, so he was in the military. He was in the army, and that uhm facilitated the road for us to be able to all come together. So could you imagine us coming to and flying for such a long time on a 747. So that was that was an experience of course. And while we were kids, we always imagined things about the United States. They always said, " ; Oh when you guys get there man you could walk up and down the road, you gonna find bicycles, that people just put out, you' ; ll find refrigerators, you' ; ll find shoes and clothing." ; So those are the--those where the myths that actually you know we believed you know. I mean we had relatives that had been in the United States in the ' ; 60s and even earlier than that. So anyway, so when it was time for us to come, as I mentioned five of us came together and went straight to New Orleans and from New Orleans one of our aunts--you know her husband I remember at the time had this brand new Cadillac. Oh my God. And you know we would have bell bottom pants and what have you. So it' ; s a little of--the English that we spoke is not the American English. It' ; s not like a West Indian type English, but it was a thick accent and they were waiting for us to open up the huge trunk and they had all kinds of food while were waiting in between flights. Chicken and what have you. So we were in paradise. And then we made our way to the connecting flight a few hours later. And then we arrived to the South Bronx. That was July 14, 1974. And literally we went to 1075 Simpson Street, apartment 8. Believe it or not I still remember that. So it was my sister who--the only girl in the middle of a family of five brothers and one sister--she had also come like two years ahead. And she with my mother went looking for an apartment and found that apartment. So perfect apartment. So we were all living there. And I think probably eight months later. That' ; s the height of the Bronx was burnin' ; . So you can imagine the apartment building they literally burned it down. And the the good thing about it is, well if there is such a silver lining in it, they always, you know we knew the neighborhood kids who would take the forty, fifty, dollars, hundred dollars, and just do it you know put the candle on the sixth floor.They already knew the pattern of the people coming in and out. And it was a six-story tenement building. And they were bang on the door and every--believe it or not because the fires were everywhere, right. On a daily basis, dozens at a time. And the resources for the fire department was in there. But as a child, I just didn' ; t put that together. So they would bang on the doors. Banged on our door, we heard their signal and then you know we all went down. Little did we know that my sister was still in the room. So the good thing is she was athletic so. I think we were on the second or third floor because you know had the fire escape and then you have the gate that comes down and--so she couldn' ; t get back out through the hallway because the smoke was already thick. So what she ended up doing is she made an attempt to come out through the fire escape and then she got to the second floor which just then and she and then jumpin' ; . She didn' ; t injure herself but anything could have happened. And you know the typical scenario, your apartment gets burnt, the Red Cross is there and you get relocated. Well we get relocated. So we went to--the name of the hotel escapes me but I' ; ll have to check with my brother. So we go to Midtown Manhattan. And it was a very nice hotel. I mean this was like a hotel. So imagine in 1974. Nice hotel. We actually had a three-bedroom or a two-bedroom suite. And you know in retrospect thinking about it I mean that was something to be seen! That was a three-bedroom suite in the middle of midtown. And out of one of the windows that three of us were staying in one room. Literally the apartment building was--I mean the Empire State Building was across the street. And we stayed there, would come in the morning and we' ; ll go down to the to the restaurant and eat. My mother had a hot plate in the room and that' ; s how we survived. And then we found an apartment on 140th Street. And that' ; s when I think I was eleven or twelve, got to Mott Haven. So I moved to 140th between. St. Anne' ; s and and Cypress. And you could just imagine that is the mid ' ; 70s you know at the time crack wasn' ; t even invented I don' ; t think--it was primarily heroin. And it was just a whole bunch of abandoned buildings and junkies. Literally. I mean that' ; s that that was the scene and the good thing about us is that it was predominantly Puerto Rican in that area you know I didn' ; t run into Dominicans or anything like that until I went to--you know much older and went to college and high school and I could start seeing. So my Spanish accent will change according to who I was hanging out with. So and it was primarily Puerto Ricans in our building and we had a very good time and it was just drugs I mean it was a lot of a lot of heroin, a lot of competing drug dealers who are poisoning different clients and what have you. That' ; s when I learned the word shooting gallery. Where a lot of these junkies would go in and literally just shoot up dope. I remember one time. When we were going to church on a Sunday morning on Southern Boulevard. So the minute we left the apartment, apparently there were five junkies in the abandoned building next to ours was shooting up dope. And apparently they cut it with rat poison. So and that is that will kill you within a matter of one? Five Minutes? After you shoot up. Two of them dead inside. Two more I guess they at the time and they ran out the building but they collapsed on the sidewalk. So here we are on a Sunday morning. Looked at the bodies like many other thing and just stepped over the bodies and just kept going going to church. And that was the way it was, you know. It wasn' ; t like you had--nothing was shocking. So I spoke the language obviously Spanish and English. So I was you know playing around with these kids and what have you. I went to the local elementary school. I went to Alexander Berger Junior High School. And the interesting thing about that, and I' ; m going to just go forward for a bit. So I was on 140th between St. Ann' ; s and Cypress back in 1975. I came back to 140th between Willis and Brook Avenue almost 18 years ago as a homeowner. So imagine me as a kid running up and down Brook Avenue and into Patterson projects and all these things up and down with some of the kids that--because I was I found the projects fascinating because they had an elevator, right. So they had an elevator, so you say wait a minute and they were relatively new in ' ; 75 still. Not that old, right. And we used to look at these massive towers I had friends that lived in there, some of them kept their apartment pretty cool and you go in on 18th floor or whatever top floor and you could just have amazing view. Again, one of those things as a child you never appreciated. And I ran up and down 140th as a kid and now, like I mentioned I came back 18 years ago, so some of the people that are relatively my age that would go to St. Peter' ; s Church. They started looking at me and says " ; Wait a minute, you kind of look familiar" ; says, " ; Yeah you guys look kinda familiar too" ; and I say, " ; Well you know we went to the same--Berger" ; you know everybody. And we started naming names and teachers and he would say, " ; Yeah you were in my class!" ; Oh! So I said, " ; You were the one that I that that caused me to get kicked out of the school because --" ; it is the funniest stories you know it is just amazing. So he said " ; hey wait a minute--so although you across the street you bought your home 18 years ago, you literally was part of this whole thing even dating back. I said, " ; Well absolutely. That' ; s where I went" ; and then even further than that, I went to South Bronx High School. Which is you know the ultimate. We were the--at the time I think we were the second graduating class. Yes the second, I think I graduated in 1981, I was class of 81 and in class of 80 was a much smaller class. But obviously we saw each other throughout those years. So that was the beginnings of it and you know like any other thing I--I came to the United States with one goal and one goal in mind and that was to get an education right because you come to this country and the way is written you supposed to take advantage of it and stay clean, stay straight, and you know like any other thing right. Some of my friends got involved in gangs, drugs, and some of them prison, some and then just got killed robbing people, join gangs and then what have you. So it' ; s just you know it took some people down and it made some other people stronger. And I' ; ve always knew what I wanted to do. You know. I wanted to go to high school--I' ; m not going into the military, I' ; m going to go to college. And I applied to go to all these schools because I you know I was financially disadvantaged, but academically advantaged. So I was always a pretty decent student. So everywhere I applied from Fordham University to all the SUNYs and what have you so. And then I didn' ; t want to go too far away right. But I wanted to go far away that I could stay on campus and get that sort of experience. And my sister became a registered nurse my older brother also went to college, Bronx Community College, and graduated from Lehman. My other brother also went to another state university the other so we--one of my other brother was a specialist back in the 70s dying buttons. Used to work in the garment industry. He passed away a few years ago and then the other one who passed away, that was about eight years ago. He was a chemist at Lincoln Hospital. So we all fairly you know. Fairly did okay as far as you know career wise or doing something where we didn' ; t go to the deep end and ended up in violence or prison or anything like that which was pretty common. For people in the neighborhood. So I went to Stony Brook University and I was I was there with the intention of going to medical school. So when I was in the South Bronx high school and again you' ; ve probably heard a lot of the same stories you know hip hop was just getting into the fray. One of the famed photographers, Joe Canzo, which was my classmate who you know he just had a camera and he was just taking pictures took lots of pictures of myself as a as a teenager you know in high school and you know he lucked out extremely well. He kept all the negatives and now you know all those years later he' ; s now the source of original content as far as photography. And then you had kids--it was a diverse student body would I mean diverse. We did have one white kid in the class. Her name was Gloria Bernstein. I' ; ll never forget Gloria Bernstein very attractive, and the rest of us was just Black, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. And that' ; s the way we lived you know you get out of school, you find out who' ; s playing music and these were we to call them back in the day, jams. You just go in the schoolyard or wherever, somebody will you know bring speakers in. That' ; s just the way of life, that' ; s what it was. There was no cell phones. Atari was the game that you played on TV or channel 11. I remember Pix used to call in the station and then used to play is the weirdest thing. Now that I' ; m that I' ; m speaking to you just my mind is now coming back full circle. So yeah. So that' ; s what I wanted. I did an internship at Lincoln Hospital my senior year I went to a program at Mount Sinai Hospital for talented individuals who wanted to pursue medicine. So I graduated from South Bronx High School but I also got a specialized high school degree from there as well. And I worked in Lincoln Hospital in the emergency room area. So there I saw a lot of trauma, trauma and drug overdose and that kind of thing. So I say Okay, I think I' ; m set with this thing. Went to Stony Brook went to the summer program there. 100% paid for of course. And did a six-week summer program and then I deliberately did not want to room with any person that looked like me. Meaning that I didn' ; t want another Spanish person, I didn' ; t want another Black person. I wanted something radically different so I remember going to my selection and I said I going to go with this roommate Michael Weiss. So we were there in what they call at the time G Quad. It was--I was the only Black guy on the whole--but that' ; s what I did intentionally you know because I just wanted to get the diversity of just being there and I was there for with them for about two years you know. So I got to get that other half and I would obviously go to parties at night and mix up and everything else, where you living, oh I' ; m living here with these guys and they eventually figured out you know that' ; s what you want to do. You could always hang out with each other but if you don' ; t think beyond your nose then so be it you know. So I did that and I was a psychology major. So I got a Bachelor' ; s of Science in psychology because I also did all the premed requirements. I didn' ; t have, in retrospect--I used to even tutor people that in science but I didn' ; t have sort of like the background, like you have these kids who took advanced placement in high school and what have you but I was smart enough to be able to figure it out, right. And I remember graduating. And I went and I took my medical boards, my MCATS and everything and so my advisor say, " ; Okay you know apply to medical school this that and the other, they got programs you could either consider going getting a master' ; s first and then [unclear] And I said no. And then there was a young lady. Who I was I mean I thought she would never get it and she just didn' ; t get it but she says you know what I' ; m going to move away, I' ; m going to go to Atlanta. Think she ended up going. And I' ; m gonna go get a masters and then just focus and she did and she' ; s a great pediatrician. She is snap (makes snap sound with fingers) you know sometimes it just--I on the other hand, I just changed my mind on graduation. I said you know what. That was 1985, ' ; 86. Right. So I say you know what I think I' ; ll get a job anywhere but I' ; m going to go to Wall Street. So when I graduated I, I graduated obviously I came back to the Bronx. At the time when I graduated my mother had then moved to Harlem. Right. So on 136th street, 130th street. And then I was I was there for a little bit and I says nah I want to move with some of my college friends. So I moved to Washington Heights for about two years. And then I decided you know what let me come back to the Bronx. So after that I end up coming back to Co-op City. I lived there for several years. Then on Pelham Parkway. And then I made a decision to then try to come back to Mott Haven-- still not knowing anything in terms of you know foreseeing any of this. It was just instinctive, you know because at the time, I was I was flipping houses with a friend of mine, colleague of mine where I worked at Citigroup I used to do it for a while. You know we would go in and buy a property, very low, and then sell it to a family not in extreme values and then we used to match them with potential financing. So I did. So when I graduated that Sunday, that Monday I went to Simms. I remember $86 I bought this striped polyester suit. I got a copy of The New York Times and then I just looked and then I see that they were hiring at PaineWebber and I says okay I' ; m going to go in there and get a job. And I literally went in. And I got the job. I was I was what they called at the time a registration--I was a registration agent, meaning I would register stock brokers who were moving from one brokerage firm to the other. And it was regulatory kind of paperwork that needed to be done to be in compliance to be able to now become a broker for PaineWebber. So that' ; s how I got into Wall Street. And then from there I went to another job doing mergers and acquisitions. We were doing a lot of tracking those statistics of companies that were being bought and so we used to repackage it and then we used to sell it back to the investment banks. So I did that for for quite a while actually. And then there was the downturn in the market. Meanwhile, all along most of my friends outside of the ones that I went to school with and the ones that lived that I still used to come and visit in Mott Haven or on 140th had no idea what I did for a living. You know. So I didn' ; t even --we never--the topic never came up. You know I said I got a job downtown. You know and I always kept it that way you know for for different reasons not to show that-- listen I did what I had to do and I' ; m doing it and so on and so forth. Did that the downturn in the market where they were getting rid and downsizing. So I left. I left Wall Street in 19--I was at Citigroup actually the last I was in Citigroup for three years in the ' ; 90s ' ; 93 to ' ; 96. Then I went to Morgan Stanley. I was doing work in investment research and in investment banking. And then the market really took a turn tumble. And then I lost my job and I says okay it' ; s no big deal I' ; m still you know, and then I remember the Department of Education had this new position called parent coordinators where it was an opportunity for the parents to have an advocate in the school besides the guidance counselor. Somebody that will listen to the parents and take a parent' ; s concerns to the principal and address whatever the situation was. So that was that was pretty good. It was a newly created position. I got the job. I says You know what, I like education. So I did that for about a year. And then the government came out with this " ; there' ; s no child left behind" ; program where they were providing stipends for parents to be able to take after school tutoring. So that' ; s the growth in that business started flowing. So you have all of these tutoring companies that saw this as a goldmine and some of them did make incredible amount of money. So one of them approached me and says look we are looking for a director of student enrollment. It was a not-for-profit firm and I said you know what, I' ; m going to work with you guys. So my job as a director was to go within the community here in the Bronx and everywhere in Washington Heights and recruit students to provide--did that with them for a while. And it was another company out of Boston in the same line of business. They wanted to open up an office in New York. Now. The first company that I worked for as a director they were based in Harlem, but their home base was Boston. So I said to them, we' ; re growing quite rapidly. We were in a town--in an historic townhouse on 137th street. Very nice house. I remember at the time it was like amazing wood carving. So they wanted to relocate to a larger space. So I said to them, listen why don' ; t you guys consider coming to the Bronx? To the South Bronx. They said are you kidding me, says nope. As a matter of fact, maybe you guys should come to Fordham Plaza. It was very nice, modern amenities and it' ; s certainly cheaper than you know housing us in different locations. So I convinced them to move and bought with that all that economy to that community. So that was my first economic impact in the South Bronx that I was able to finagle, with all the right reasons of course. That could have been anywhere else, it didn' ; t matter the teachers were local to the schools that they taught. So having a base anywhere, it didn' ; t really matter. So we did that there. And the other company in Boston wanted to open up a division here in New York as well. So they recruited me, I left them and I started working for them. So they had me in an office in midtown Manhattan. So I was responsible for setting up the entire operation. The staffing, the hiring and so on and so forth. I said look, why don' ; t we move to the Bronx? And they say well your call, where do you think we should go? I think we should move to, uhm, Willis Avenue. So literally, we opened up the store on Willis Avenue the iconic building on 149 that that it' ; s sort of like been around, that' ; s where you used to see the el train and what have you. And I bought all the staff, hired everyone local and everyone from the administrators to the program managers they were all local people deliberately that I picked and chose. So that was the kind of thing that that that that I' ; ve always been conscious of doing, right. And then getting back to the neighborhood they always would see me--you know wake up in the morning because I at the time now I was already living on 140th, and I' ; ll go there do what I spent time there and then they decided to sell the company. Again, without a job. So 15 years ago, April actually, I got a call from Citigroup to say that they were looking for someone with a background of what I had of course as a consultant still in investments. So I said you know what I' ; ll go in, what the hell in between jobs. Get there and started work in the same division that I had left you know like 10 years earlier. And a month later, they asked me if I was interested in working full time. And I said sure why not. And I' ; d been back in finance again for the last 15 years. Now I don' ; t know if you' ; re going to ask any questions in between but-- Amy Starecheski: Go ahead, I' ; ll jump in when you' ; re done. Samuel Brooks: It' ; s just a matter as far as the transitional change in the neighborhood. You know. I' ; ve always been conscious of it. Right. But the thing with myself personally, is that I work--I' ; ve been on both sides of the equation right. You know doing the day-by-day job just is a whole different characteristic, it' ; s a whole different personality because it' ; s just by nature of the of the work that I do. I interact with people totally different, if is an African-American and Latino we' ; re all well-educated and what have you and this is what we do. And of course you know I' ; ve been fortunate I could have lived any--not anywhere but I had choices, right. But I always came back to the Bronx and my ultimate choice was to come back as a homeowner. And specifically in a building of the sort that I used to run up and down with. That' ; s how I ended up with what I have now. But I' ; ve I' ; ve actually noticed the neighborhood changes probably about 10 years ago. You know that' ; s when I really started consciously--because everyone was talking about y' ; know gentrification. Everyone was talking about how' ; s it in Manhattan, it' ; s getting prohibitively expensive. Everyone was buying in Harlem and it got to a point that people couldn' ; t afford in Harlem so those are the spillovers that started coming into Mott Haven, because of the proximity to Manhattan. And that' ; s when I started noticing newer people coming into the neighborhood and they were coming in as homeowners, you know buying on the same block on 140 and these were people that lived in Harlem and they didn' ; t want to be left out of this process again. Then going into subways in the morning, I started seeing a diverse group of people. Now this is in the morning--so my assumption is they live here. Then you see them again the next day so it wasn' ; t as though they were visiting. In the evening you come back, and start seeing them I says okay and now it' ; s just growing and growing and then here comes the developers. You know all this land that some of them held for years and it was just the bandit but technically there' ; s no such thing. And it just was waiting for the right time. And then you have people just literally coming in leveraging whatever they had and buying massive parcels and flipping them and selling it among each other and building and then you have the rising chorus of discontent displaced, rightfully so, people who have dedicated themselves to just be a pain in the ass. You know an activist in some respects then go into community meetings, demanding things from the developers and what have you. But I I' ; ll be honest with you I' ; m a logic and reasonin' ; person, I see logic and I see reason and when there is--you know I speak to quite a few of the developers right. And I always engage them. And I always tell them you know it' ; s always there' ; s always great to have the dialogue and don' ; t dictate but it' ; s free enterprise right. You bought a parcel of land. To zone it allows for you to do whatever it is that you' ; re doing. You don' ; t have to interact with any person, right. And if it' ; s going to be a residential you just bring in the people that can afford that rent and more than likely it' ; s not going to be the people in the same community. But it would be great if whenever you start your building, you do have some community engagement. Because it goes well for--and some of them have been doing it. But everybody' ; s walking on sort of like on pins and needles. Rents already, who would have imagined a one bedroom in the South Bronx. Fifteen hundred. I mean that' ; s just like unheard of 10 years ago. You know in the townhouses that we have now, they mean and asking of them over a million dollars has now become standard fare. Who would have thought 15 years ago. Could have gotten those things for 250, 200, 125 depending how lucky you were. And so goes y' ; know so goes it you know. And that' ; s what inspired me to continue this thing with this historic preservation because everybody' ; s talking about new new new. And here I am running against time, because I figured these new people that are coming in with deeper financial resources they' ; re going to come into this neighborhood and they' ; re going to say hmmm all these gorgeous buildings, all this historic district, and there isn' ; t an association that' ; s driving this you know. And that' ; s when I say you know what. Let' ; s just put something together just as a as a pin on the wall. And let' ; s see what happens. So that has increased, it has driven my passion for preservation but not just the physical structures or the buildings. But for the people that look like me who' ; ve been moving into the neighborhood in the 50s you know Puerto Ricans and African-Americans and and what have you because there literally cannot afford the rent. I mean that' ; s just the way it is is. By virtue of the job they have they just it is mathematically it' ; s not possible. And some of them are moved back to Newburgh, others that went to Pennsylvania, the Delawares and that kind of thing. And literally the people that you see for example on 139, 140, Alexander Avenue--these are people that have a lot, not a lot but they have greater means to be able to stay there. So that' ; s that that journey that personal journey that has turned into a passion for me personally. And just speaking to not for people and even the newer people that come and says look you just can' ; t sit on your stoop and pull out a bottle of wine and not say hello to a guy that' ; s across the street who' ; s been living there for 65 years in that single room tenement because that' ; s the same guy who if you do park your car or bicycle or somebody is trying to do something in your home--he' ; s the guy who gonna say hey, don' ; t leave that alone because that belongs to you know. Or when you have an Amazon delivery and they leave it there you know. And that' ; s why I always call it the power of anonymity--you don' ; t know who' ; s who. But if you decide to wake up here every single day, it behooves you to literally interact with your neighbors. Don' ; t tell me you bought a beautiful townhouse on Alexander Avenue, you restored it to its period and you' ; re having a fabulous dinner parties whatever you want to call it and inviting all your friends from downtown and then you telling them, " ; Hey don' ; t worry, the next one comes up I' ; ll let you know you could be buying" ; . ou know and they' ; ve been doing that of course but you know speak to the people you know. Say hello to the people you know. I mean. Blacks and Puerto Ricans started coming to Mott Haven in the ' ; 50s you know. So you had originally the Irish that were coming here in 1850s. You had the Irish, the Germans, Eastern Jews--Eastern European Jews. So they were here before we actually got to this part of the Bronx. Right. So it' ; s almost like a full circle so that if you see them you know it' ; s sort of like let' ; s just have that interaction and that' ; s what I' ; ve been doing for the last couple of years more focus on the community. Not from an advocating, in a protesting way in terms of things that are coming into the neighborhood because I you know I' ; m an entrepreneur by nature. You know but that' ; s just me so. Amy Starecheski: I have so many questions. This is fantastic, thank you for sharing all that. I' ; m going to start by going all the way back. Samuel Brooks: Yeah sure. Amy Starecheski: Ehm, you said your family had a house--can you tell me about that house? Samuel Brooks: Actually yeah. It was. It was a four-family wooden house. We lived on the second floor, and had the larger part of it and we had a tenant on the side and then we had two apartments on the bottom. That part of Honduras where we actually owned that piece of land my uncle owned the other piece, so my grandfather owned pretty much like about a third of the block. And he gave it to different siblings you know my mother and my uncle and my aunt, and so on and so forth. But the way we ended up with that property there and that is the central part of the town of [unclear] Honduras. There was a hospital where I was born called the D' ; Antoni hospital where it was on the golf course. So we originally owned some of that property. So they wanted to build a hospital in that area. So then they agreed and I guess my grandparents and everything say well we' ; ll take this section here because it' ; s only eight minute ten minute walk. And that' ; s how we ended up there. So we were always you know we were always my mother--my father passed away when my mother was eight months pregnant with me. So I never had the opportunity to meet my father, so all my brothers became my father. I think my father died he was like thirty-six years old. So my mother was a very young widow and remained so. So the way she survived was she used to lend money you know exchange money--she' ; s always used to go to the standard food company because these workers during the week weekends had spend all their money and they need to borrow money so she used to be and people used to come to the house and they used to borrow money. So that' ; s what she used to--she used to do that, that' ; s how she survived. And we' ; ve had aunts that that lived in the US that came back to Honduras. People in the islands. So [unclear] we had family. So it wasn' ; t like I was walking barefoot in Central America wondering you know what' ; s going to become of me. We weren' ; t rich, obviously, but we owned our own property and we had you know a maid that would come in and you know do our laundry that kind of thing. So it was pretty good. Amy Starecheski: How did your father die? Samuel Brooks: You know that' ; s a very good question. I think he had some teeth that were taken out and I think he was drinking at the time and he caught some sort of a blood infection. And you know back then what penicillin couldn' ; t cure or whatever basic cure didn' ; t apply to him. Or it didn' ; t have it at the time or what have you. And he just died. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I saw. Pictures of you know procession how they used to do in the real traditional you know with a horse and you know music and you know you see my mother and. My other brothers and you see my mother pregnant that was me is just like wow. It' ; s. Pretty cool. To say the least you know. So. Yeah that. That was that part of that story and because I never had any sense you know I was a child so and my brothers were always overprotective of me because I was the last one who made it who was lucky to say the least. Amy Starecheski: Did your family keep that land in Honduras? Samuel Brooks: As a matter of fact. The way the way the land is pretty valuable in a sense because everyone started discovering Honduras 20 years ago, 25 years ago. And then there' ; s a lot of commerce in that particular town because it' ; s the it' ; s the more popular one and then you have the islands of Roatán where a lot of Americans started going there and buying property and what have you. So yes, we still have it as a matter of fact. When my mother passed away about 20 something years ago. We tore down the house and we rebuilt it out of concrete. So on the very top there' ; s a huge four bedroom, two bath kind of a thing and then downstairs we got two apartments. But now what you' ; ve been reading in the papers, the last 10 years or so the level of violence, gangs and what have you there literally--so I told my siblings I said look I think it' ; s time for us to pull out of that part of--where we had lived all our decades in our lives. And let' ; s sell. So we' ; re in the process now of trying to get rid of that property. But I said at the same time we still should own something in Central America so we' ; re considering going into the island of Roatán and sort of buy like I don' ; t like like a one bedroom in one of those resorts kind of a thing that will allow for our kids to go safely there and come back without having to go to the mainland and deal with all of that foolishness because I want nothing to do with that. So we' ; re in the process of doing that. Amy Starecheski: Do you know why--it sounds like your family had like a relatively stable situation, do you know why they came here? Samuel Brooks: Well, I mean it' ; s like any other thing right. Everyone that we would meet that has been to the United States is something that we wanted to do. I mean our intent to come here was to just pursue a better life, if there is such a thing. And by virtue of education, it was an opportunity. We had one of our aunts one of my mother' ; s sisters who was in San Diego at the time. She used to. She used to do a lot of sewing. In the ' ; 60s she managed to open up a factory, a sewing factory. So when my father died when I was a child about two years old. My aunt that was living in, I think in San Diego at the time, was doing very well. Wanted--told my mother to his sister why don' ; t you give me him, me, give me to her. And then because you already have five, I have none. And you know I' ; ll take care of him, I' ; ll raise him like my own. I mean I' ; ll tell him that you' ; re his mother, but he' ; ll come right away to the United States. That would have been here at the age of about two or three years old. And of course, my mother said no. She refused, said she could manage. And I' ; ll take my chances with him! (laughs) Amy Starecheski: What was your mum like? What kind of person was she? Samuel Brooks: She was she was she was very you know she was a religious person, very you know, very friendly of course. Thing about our mother we never called her mommy or you know. We used to call her by her name. Her name was Enel, Enel [phonetic] and I grew up calling her by her name. You know. [unclear] Latino. Like that was her legal name that was, that was her name. So we never called you know we never called her by anything other than her name. So it was that kind of a relationship that. That we had. Amy Starecheski: I' ; m just going to close the window, there seems to be a bit of a siren situation out there. Why you called--was that typical? Like why? Samuel Brooks: Ahhhh. No it wasn' ; t typical of the time. It wasn' ; t typical. I mean that' ; s what everybody called her. You know and remember we were relatively young. You know back then. I mean our father by then you know that was 50-57 years ago. Right. So my oldest brother is 68. Right. Ten years. Yeah. So imagine that you know. So he was still relatively young. So yeah we just call--it wasn' ; t a tradition, it wasn' ; t something that we English speaking people from Honduras would typically call you know everybody else was calling their mother you know mommy you know not even my mom. Mommy, the Spanish version of it. And that' ; s just the way it was. But we just were a bit different in that regard. I used to just call her by her name. You know. Dona Ines. Antino and that' ; s what--we used to come to the house and used to say Dona Ines and that was her name, Antino [phonetic]. And that' ; s what I grew up I never called her mother, none of us did. You know. I mean we knew that was our mother, but this it' ; s weird it' ; s weird dynamic. And again, that was that was Caribbean life. You know. We went to school there, we went to English school there as well. So again, we had the opportunity where we went to the local Spanish school. But then again, we had the resources because we spoke English and everybody else either spoke just Spanish or the Garifuna people that came by way of St. Vincent and that relocated to Honduras all they spoke was their language you know. And I --we spoke both English and Spanish. So we went to Spanish school and went to English school. And that' ; s the way we were rolling back then. Amy Starecheski: So when you, when you came here you know, coming here for opportunity for a better life and then coming to the South Bronx in the 1970s--what did you think? Samuel Brooks: I mean I was I mean we were all anxious to get to the United States. I mean that' ; s just it didn' ; t matter. I had no--I mean it could have easily have been, we could have landed and lived in Brooklyn or Queens. The Bronx is just where we ended up. We did have some people that that came years earlier before we got here in the ' ; 60s, used to go to Intervale Avenue. 1061 Intervale Avenue. That' ; s where a lot of the English-speaking Hondurans would come and then they would congregate there--they would go to Bathgate on 183rd Street. Ah so there was that little community so our proximity was on Simpson Street. Which wasn' ; t far from Intervale. Which wasn' ; t too far from Bathgate. So that' ; s where it was always that part of where the Honduran people would come in. So my sister actually looked in the papers and found that apartment, told my mother I think the price is right, I think it was like 200 and something dollars some amazing number for like a three or four bedroom apartment. Go figure. How about that. The building is no longer there of course. They built private homes, private--those townhouse looking kind of a thing. They demolished the building and that abandonment and all that foolishness. So but yeah I know it wouldn' ; t have--it didn' ; t matter where. We knew we were getting on a plane. We had a passport and we had a green card. So we were we were set to go at any time and we just waited and then my brother said okay, the consulate said we' ; re ready to go. And we all came at the same time. So imagine that, the Brook' ; s leaving at the same time you know, so that would have been a sight to see. And it was cool, it was pretty good. Pretty good. Amy Starecheski: Can you remember anything more of your first impressions of the Bronx as a--you said like an 11-- Samuel Brooks: Yeah well yeah about 12. You know then again I was more I didn' ; t I didn' ; t understand that we moved into a neighborhood that was very very poor. I mean y' ; know it was just that. I mean as a 12 year kid, listen I came from Central America, so I' ; m not--I didn' ; t come from Darien, Connecticut and says oh my God what is this. You know I' ; m living here, on Simpson Street with all the sirens and all the police sirens and all the you know the drugs and all that. To me you know I just said I' ; m in the United States. And I enrolled in school obviously right away. I--my diction and what have you wasn' ; t like the way the American folks or the people who were living here. You know so I had to adapt quickly because my reading wasn' ; t to par, I fail a lot of the classes because I just didn' ; t put one and one together at that level. You know I didn' ; t go to kindergarten, I didn' ; t got to first second and what have you. I came in I think at fifth grade or sixth grade. I don' ; t know what the what the number would have been. And that was just it. It was a struggle for me probably the first year. Teachers told my older brother I think it' ; s best if you put him in bilingual. And he said no, why would I do that, that' ; s going to be self-defeating. You know he needs to go through this process and sure enough the following year. I mean I was an A student in every sense and didn' ; t turn back. So that' ; s just the way we were. You know we came with a level of discipline. And we had respect. Which was different in these kids who would stay out all night, hanging out in the street. By 8:00 or something I had to go upstairs, I had to do homework. And my other three brothers that were ahead of me you know that' ; s what we did. You know we came from a totally different place completely where we had more freedom and everything else. And it was just no locks on the door, I never saw a key in my life. I literally--we didn' ; t even have a lock on our door in Honduras. Here obviously you need it, even though it was still in the ' ; 70s you know. You know I--just the most remarkable thing you know and there I understood back then it was tranquil Honduras then obviously as I started getting older and I started going wait a minute, this place is truly a dangerous place--if they don' ; t know who you are you know. But you grew up in a neighborhood. So therefore you' ; ve been adopted by the neighborhood and the drug dealers knew who you were and they would say it' ; s okay, leave those alone. These three guys that are there going to school you see they don' ; t hang out here late at night. They' ; re not runners. They don' ; t work for any of us. Leave those you know like me and my two other brothers--you know these guys doing what they have to do. And that' ; s the way we kept it. You know not a single one of us had any issues with the law. None of us were ever arrested and we just did what we had to do. Even my older brother at the time they were probably 17. 18. You know. High school age kind of a thing, and we survive you know. Thank God. To say the least you know but yeah. So when I got here in ' ; 75 to me it didn' ; t, it didn' ; t impact me. I was more excited the fact that I got on a plane, I' ; m in the United States. I see pretty cars, I see people with bicycles, I hear ice cream trucks and we were good. You know the local bodega. We used to have change, go there buy candy, what have you and just had access to a lot of things. Things that were considered an amount--anomaly in Honduras at the time was as a twelve-year-old it just didn' ; t happen you know. You know clothes that were fancy clothes to say the least so it wasn' ; t like I was born on Brooke Avenue and so in all that turbulence and I dropped out of high school and I decided to go into the military or I had to go away because I was hanging in the streets. We didn' ; t have that path. You know even though we were mixed with people who had that path who were very good friends of ours. You know I had very good classmates of mines who lived in the projects. You know all of them surrounded projects. So we were all one big family--I just happened to just live in a six story building. And that' ; s just the way it was. You know I would see them in school, those who used to come when they could. But that' ; s just the way it was. So it didn' ; t impact me in that regard. I went to high school again stayed within throwing distance from where I was all this time. And only when I started going to college then I say wait a minute it' ; s a class--it' ; s a two class structure here. You know there are people that are being dropped off in cars. You know I had to take the long island railroad and my suitcase. You know you know kids telling me oh my dad makes seventy thousand--remember Michael Weiss' ; , father was an insurance salesperson. He said, " ; Yeah my dad makes, he does a--makes like seventy thousand dollars a year." ; I couldn' ; t even wrap that around my head that. And I says, Wow. But they also were curious about me because at the time they knew, Wait a minute you came from the South Bronx--so tell me what it' ; s like, what about the buildings and the burning and all that kind of stuff. So I had my own assets, right that they found it curious you know. Like I told you I interacted because my purpose of going to college was to exactly do that. You know not just to stay on the African-American side or the Latino side and I ventured across the street because it would have been a been a self-defeating mission so to speak which allowed me even now I navigating both worlds. And I said to you earlier, most people have no idea what I do for a living. The people that I consider my friends--other than colleagues of course--I' ; m talking about people in this community. Yeah, I just work downtown. That' ; s what I tell them because I think. What I do with the tours or what I do with the preservation is a job, it' ; s a volunteer it' ; s not you know--it' ; s just keeping an eye on where I' ; m living. I just for me financially obviously because I have a major investment but just if I can just raise my hand and just say something about some injustice you know I will do it. But I' ; m not the one that you' ; re going to see picketing Fresh Direct or you know because I am too logical you know a perfect example. That deal was already a done deal, right. And I remember telling this to some of the people who would picket it and what have you and says you guys realize that that is that the tax abatement--that' ; s a done deal, it' ; s not going to be reversed. It' ; s not--you cannot go to the community but you cannot now. But I think you have an opportunity to say okay it' ; s a done deal, our concern was the high level of asthma--and I suffer from asthma as well--is so devastating that can we come to some sort of arrangement where--and I told them, you guys could have probably gotten a half a million to a million dollars or even more from First Direct if they would have set up some sort of an asthma test in local facilities within the community, sensors to measure. But at the end of the day, you got nothing out of it. You got a little press at the very beginning but Fresh Direct is not a human being it' ; s like Columbia University acquiring property all throughout Washington Heights and what have you. That' ; s the there is no such. There is no such person that' ; s 68 years old named Columbia. Right. it just doesn' ; t exist. We both will all be gone. You know that' ; s just the way it is. You know. So that' ; s the kind of thing that you know I say, you could have gotten something out of a bad situation you had them--and I remember speaking to Fresh Direct and I says look I mean you guys are getting hit up in the media and all that stuff. It' ; s a lot of attention, a lot of press, a lot of things that you see on the wall and what have you. They say Yeah it' ; s sad but they come with--you know too bad you' ; re not part of that organization or the organization, but if they would have said to us this is what we want, we were ready to give them any and everything they wanted. Maybe they made an offer and they said no no we don' ; t want it. That' ; s why I--you know same thing with the developers. They keep talking about Keith Rubinstein. You know he came bought this parcel of land, fifty something million, was going to build six towers. Brookfield came in, made him a better offer, flipped it and he was eviscerated for having--the party, talked about the [unclear], a whole bunch of things. And he always he said Sam, just as long as you don' ; t respond to any of that because eventually there is nothing--this is a free enterprise there' ; s nothing that can be done. They' ; re not threatening my life. Right. You know I just bought something that was there and this is what I' ; m doing. All these warehouses in the back here. I mean people that own those warehouses were not black or Hispanics. You know these were people who bought these things in the ' ; 60s and ' ; 70s--all those factories that are back there now, those things are flipping for multiples of millions of dollars you know exotic lofts and everything else. Everyone in my office they know more about Mott Haven than I do. You know they say well we buyin' ; sites un seen. I remember, 15 years ago. My boss used to live in Connecticut, Greenwich Connecticut. Old Greenwich Connecticut in a multimillion-dollar home. He says so Sam tell me about Mott Haven. I said, Well you know I bought there just the other day you know that like three years ago. He said really. I yeah, no, I think. And I say well do you want to buy a house there. And he says yeah just find me one and I' ; ll just buy it. I said Joe, but you haven' ; t seen the house and we call this sight unseen. If you' ; re living there why not. And sure enough I say okay we' ; ll find your house. Found them a townhouse on 139. So the story goes he buys the house he buys it cash--his two daughters at the time he wanted them to see the house because potentially I don' ; t know when they get older they go to college in NYU or Columbia or whatever. Those girls walked in there and said, Oh my god what the hell is this dump. And at the time he was I think going through a divorce and he looked at me and says wow, what do you think you can do. I said you know what, I got a solution. So when I was doing work in my house I photographed everything. So I come with this book right. And I says oh you think that house look bad in the inside, this is what mine looked like and now this is what it looks like now. So they look and say okay, I can see the potential. So make a long story short, in probably a 10 year period, the daughters went to high school graduated college and one of the daughters now is coming back to the South Bronx. She' ; s going to be teaching, starting this summer at one of the charter schools I think on Willis Avenue or somewhere. And where do you think she wants to live. She' ; s moving in there and the last top floor because it' ; s trendy and it' ; s like wow and she sees what no other place--so just a funny story to see this whole full circle and the other daughter who is in theater says oh no I' ; m coming back. And that' ; s where I want to live. You know. Yeah. Connecticut we live well and you know what have you, but that was just that. But this is where you know young artists, and she' ; s artists obviously she' ; s in theater, live you know well-educated young women and you know it' ; s the weirdest thing. Full circle. Amy Starecheski: Yeah, you said maybe it was like 10 years ago that you started to notice significant changes. Samuel Brooks: Yeah. Amy Starecheski: At what--at what point did people in your office start knowing, start talking about Mott Haven? Because that' ; s a different level of-- Samuel Brooks: Well yeah but the thing is right so we we cover publicly traded companies in all industries and and real estate is one of our leading industries that we' ; ve always ranked number one and the team I know them well and we know each other well we go back a year. So this is what they do. They do that for for a living as far as you know coverage so they know what' ; s happened in terms of commercial and residential. They foresee markets and what have you. And you know when they mention things in--can I just take a break? My sister called me. Amy Starecheski: Yeah, yeah, go ahead. It' ; s nice that you' ; re still close with your siblings Samuel Brooks: Yeah, what was the question? Amy Starecheski: I was asking like at what point-- Samuel Brooks: People in my office-- Amy Starecheski: Yeah like at what point did people in your office start saying we' ; ll buy anything in Mott Haven. Samuel Brooks: Yeah I think it was about yeah about 10, 12 years ago when they started realizing the trends because the way we follow the market right. We knew, for example, Tribeca--our headquarters is at 388 Greenwich right. Back in ' ; 80, not ' ; 80-something--back in ' ; 96, nobody wanted to live in that area. Just think about, you used to see a lot of rats running up and down alleyways. But it was again the De Niro' ; s, Robert De Niro' ; s grandfather was acquiring a lot of that, those properties the Pontes were acquiring a lot. But you know that' ; s just the way nature operates. Right. So with regards to the South Bronx they started realizing that the Bronx the Bronx literally begins where Manhattan ends. Right. Technically as far as the southern part of the Bronx. So during that time of the Harlem Renaissance where people were buying townhomes 15 years ago, 18 years ago and they just started realizing that eventually it started becoming prohibitively expensive. It' ; s like back in the--back in the late ' ; 80s nobody wanted to buy anything North of 96th street, that was the red line. You do not go up north of 96th Street on Broadway or Amsterdam or Riverdale--Riverside you just don' ; t do it. Then you had pioneers that would go 10 blocks further up, bring their friends and eventually that' ; s just the way the ball has rolled. So with regards to Mott Haven from a projected point of view, the people in finance always had this this thing about neighborhoods. You know because they track them, you know they knew what was going on. And so on and so forth. So some of them started getting into the market. As far as the real estate in the South Bronx. As far back as 12, 13 years ago whenever it is that they started saying wait a minute there is some money to be made here and there' ; s hold for a while and sure enough you know the changes that are happening now is just at a rapid pace. So ten years ago I began to notice the difference in terms of the people that were coming into the neighborhood and then the accelerated process 7, 5 years ago with the developers now coming in and at the time there wasn' ; t any marquee real estate company. There was nothing. Now you have the local, small realtor that was selling townhouses to this to that getting overrun by the likes of Corcoran Douglas Elliman and they just here now. I mean that' ; s just the way it is. I mean I don' ; t see a physical office but it' ; s across the street in Harlem. But they' ; re here, the agents live in the Bronx. And some of them just moved in and that' ; s what they' ; re doing and they' ; re doing--they' ; re flipping these things. And they' ; re getting buyers, they' ; re knocking the doors in. And that' ; s just the way it goes. I mean the person that I met--you probably already know this, is friends with Carol as well. 280. I mean they bought two of them at the same time from the sisters from the Dominican sisters--two of them at the same time. Go figure. Amy Starecheski: I have other questions in the middle but since we' ; re talking about it, can you tell me about the kinds of experiences that other homeowners on your block or in the area are having now with--you know you were telling me stuff about people getting offers, being pressured to sell or having opportunities to sell like-- Samuel Brooks: Yeah I mean there' ; s--my immediate neighbors she' ; s been there for probably like 40 years, 50 years you know her ex-husband owns another townhouse on 139. Her mother owns a nice house on Alexander Avenue. So they' ; ve been in the neighborhood for decades. And she tells me all the time you know Sam I get just as much offers as you do but I' ; m not going anywhere. There was a young man at the end of the block next to the school where--I think I may have mentioned this to you--where his father, he was young, his father was a Vietnam veteran died like, probably like 8 years ago and left the house to his son. He was the youngest. I guess he had him when he was in his ' ; 60s left the house to him and his sister. He was like 25 years, 24 years old kid that never went anywhere, hung out in the street with the guys at the corner. And I remember clearly telling him says young man, when you speak to your sister just make sure that you do not accept any offers less than say 800,000 dollars. This was a couple of years ago. So there' ; s this gentleman that used to walk the neighborhood with a suitcase with cash and his Jewish kid with a suitcase full of cash and he would see opportunities or knock on doors, he would literally just knock on doors " ; Hey my name is A.J.. Are you willing to sell your house." ; It worked for some. In his case, he was always in need of money for taxes and what have you, so this guy began to build that relationship with him before you know it. House was sold for four hundred and fifty dollars, four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Kid takes the money, splits whatever he has to with his sister, buys a BMW. Hanging out with those guys before you know it, he no longer has the BMW. That person that bought the house for 450, flipped it. He already had a buyer. Flipped it for 720. Didn' ; t do a thing to the house. I don' ; t even think he painted inside. Flipped it. Okay. And the young couple that bought it I think they' ; re Koreans or, yeah I think either Koreans or Chinese. They wanted to flip it without even doing anything to it. They wanted to get it for like nine--they wanted the same equivalent, like 920. The offers they were getting were into the high eights already, so they already got it for 720. They say you know what, we gonna renovate and then rent it out and hold it for you know three four years and then really go north of one. They just finished the renovation. And I think now they' ; re going to now--given what one of our neighbors just sold on 139, they' ; ll definitely get more than that. The other house on 140th, the buyer tracked down the owner who was living in Puerto Rico, went to Puerto Rico, bought the house from her for seven--for 120, came, flipped it for four, from four--it is just like that' ; s the kind of game that some of these guys that are in the market of finding distressed properties having the ability to locate the owners. And that' ; s that' ; s just that' ; s the competitive market now. The person who just closed yesterday didn' ; t even use a broker to sell the house went on Street Easy. Took some pictures. Put it up. Paid six hundred dollars to have a premium placed, open house, 10 people came, three offers were made--first person that walked in and said I' ; ll take it. And you know but that' ; s that' ; s it' ; s inevitable. I mean that' ; s what happens. You know that' ; s what happens. I mean simple as that. That' ; s what happens. So. It' ; s not. It' ; s it. But like I said I hope they can hold out for those who still have because most of the homes on 140th in particular and even the older ones on Alexander there' ; s no mortgage on these homes and they haven' ; t been upgraded in terms of the mechanics of the homes and things of that nature but they just they' ; re getting old you know. And it' ; s inevitable that something is going to happen you know. But hopefully if they want to live out a couple of years you know, having choices to go out to dinner and travel and everything else and maybe move back somewhere else where it' ; s less expensive and take it given how much years you have to have to live or something to that effect. You know because I' ; m not the person, I' ; m not going to stay the past 10 years. You know you just let it become somebody else' ; s dream. You know that' ; s just the way I see it I don' ; t. And I have no problem with it. Yeah. Amy Starecheski: To go back for a minute--when you were a kid here, like what kind of games did you play? Samuel Brooks: It was all street games--ring the leader, kick the can, spin the bottle. You know tag. It was all--actually matter of fact, I don' ; t remember most of--I don' ; t even remember knowing any kid that was obese. That got 12-year-old a 13 year old a 14 year old. I don' ; t remember. Because everything we did was so physical. You know when I learned how to do backhand springs it' ; s like you know abandoned buildings, take the mattress, everybody was doing--every abandoned building had mattresses, you stack ' ; em up and that' ; s what you learn to do. Your acrobatics. So if you look at some of the older pictures you say wait a minute. If you just notice that little nuance, because we were always movin' ; . Right. Or like now with all the sugary sodas and what have you it' ; s just like kills you. You know it' ; s like the way your daughter and the daughter' ; s friend is always on the monkey bars and all of that. That' ; s the kind of thing we did. It was all physical street games that' ; s all we had. It was nothing to stay upstairs and play with when you go upstairs--it' ; s just homework and bed. And that was nothing else. Amy Starecheski: You wish it was monkey bars--it' ; s just scaffolding they' ; re playing on! Samuel Brooks: Yeah (laughs). That' ; s the urban version of it. Amy Starecheski: Right (laughs). Samuel Brooks: Now that we have a multimillion-dollar park down there, let' ; s see how long--. Amy Starecheski: I can' ; t get them out of that new park. Samuel Brooks: that lasts. Amy Starecheski: Yeah. So--what did your mother do for work when you got here. Did she find a job? Samuel Brooks: She was a uhm she used to be a home attendant. She did that for about 10, 12 years. She took care of one person for that many years until they passed away and she was assigned to another person. And that' ; s what she did. She never earned more than $14,000 a year. That was her top earning. When she passed away, she had amassed about like $30,000 that she left for us. Exactly. And she managed to buy her burial plot at Moshulu. And the way she died she died of what they called a pulmonary embolism. So she was slightly overweight. She was feeling pain in her leg. She went to Lincoln Hospital. And I think one of the attendant physicians says " ; Oh you' ; re fine" ; and she was complaining about this pain and everything else. And they say something to the effect of no you could just go home and take some aspirins and you' ; ll be fine. Got to the house and then she--everybody was there. I was on my way to the house just by pure coincidence. But all my brothers were there. And she suffered a massive heart attack. The first time and then one of my brothers who is the chemist who worked at Lincoln Hospital manages to do CPR, brought her back. Ambulance was on the way and she went into another one and couldn' ; t save her. And I got to the house when I turned the corner I saw all the police and ambulance and my brother sitting there and I knew something happened. So, me being logical right, I was living with these guys in Manhattan. I said to my brother, so what happened, why did--oh she went to this that and the other, and she was this that and the other and somehow they missed something. I says okay, I went to my office and I spoke to somebody there and one guy says listen, I think you should get an attorney. You know just look into it make sure to do an autopsy. I say okay, he said I have a friend, he' ; s an attorney out of White Plains. I says you know what I' ; ll call, set up an appointment and they says okay we' ; ll take the case. And this is still while we were making funeral arrangements and I said well the first thing that we all need to do is start writing down--because my brothers lived there and all that and yellow pads to give to the attorney and we built out the story and then we sued Lincoln Hospital and and we settled with them--I think that the time was like two hundred and fifty three hundred thousand dollars. Yeah. For wrongful misdiagnosis at the time so yeah. So it was again just logic and saying I think we need an attorney. I have one. Let' ; s just do this. It' ; s not going to cost us anything. So that was that. Yeah. Yeah. Amy Starecheski: When you moved here as a kid, did did your mom talk to you about what you were seeing around you, like about how to-- Samuel Brooks: No, no. Amy Starecheski: like how to handle yourself? Samuel Brooks: Because remember I had five older brothers. I was the youngest. I was the youngest. My older brother at the time when we got here, he was probably like 19. So we had an army--we had a self-sustained army you know. So they all they all knew where we were you know--oh they just came from Central America, they speak Spanish and you know we integrated right away because we came into a culture that the language wasn' ; t a barrier and we just you know and we knew right from wrong. But we had respect and we didn' ; t get involved in things that we knew were just--we didn' ; t know drugs I mean why I didn' ; t even smoke or anything like that much less staying out breaking night we used to call it. All my friends used to say yeah we stayed out until 3:00 in the morning you know. But I couldn' ; t do that. You know the other two that were ahead of me. Are you kidding me--you know so we self discipline us you know no arguments among us. There was nothing no blood no bad blood because we came from a from a culture back home that we were all close you know as far as relatives and family members--you come to the United States, you comin' ; to do something not to sidetrack. And you know we used to go to church every Sunday. Church on Southern Boulevard. Evangelical church. So you know we were still young but connected to the church. And then you start getting older and then that you know it' ; s sort of like goes that way. But so we had again discipline, pretty good discipline as a child so it wasn' ; t like she would sit up I say okay see what you saw at the corner saw the guy die and you see all the money you see--she didn' ; t have to go through that process so to speak. You know stay away from. We knew who the bad people were we knew who just came out of jail, we knew who was going into jail, we knew who killed who and that kind of thing. But that' ; s just the way that was. And we happen to just be living in the midst of it, more than partaking so to speak if that makes any sense. Amy Starecheski: It does make sense. Can you tell me more about what it was like to live through the fires? Samuel Brooks: I think I mean the fires--believe it or not before our building burned down, you know the thing to do we still do a lot of fire watching. You know every time there' ; s a fire everybody runs to the roof and try to guess--that was the game, where do you think that is? Oh that' ; s by Linc--no that' ; s not you know that was that was also a game. Literally fire watching. If it' ; s not your building on fire, you' ; ll run up to the roof and try to identify where it is and then go the next day. Yep. That' ; s what I told you. Yep. You can still smell it. You know. We used to sometimes go into the buildings and use the scrap metal that we used to get out of the building or the bathtubs. Right because by a Bruckner there was a scrap metal yard. So go with these two other guys older than me of course and we go every apartment was the bathtub was was exactly that--we used to go with sledgehammers and break them up. And bring it out and we used to sell scrap metal. That' ; s we used to get money. Every apartment had one. Think about it. Amy Starecheski: Yeah. No I have one, those big heavy bathtubs (laughs) those cast iron ones. Samuel Brooks: And the radiators as well. And that' ; s what we used to sell. Radiators and the tubs and the sink sometimes depending upon what it was. And in retrospect I would just say to myself Oh my God if I only knew right. But you know I was I was still a young man so. Amy Starecheski: You mean if you only knew how valuable those bathtubs would be like now today? How valuable or how the people that actually owned the building had an opportunity to sell them, and the city was giving them away and that kind of thing. But we were all red lined. There was no way we were going to be able to get a mortgage or a loan. If you did it was a predatory one in the ' ; 70s or in the ' ; 80s to try to buy even a home--yeah it was, it was it was difficult as a culture here in the United States of course. And that' ; s where you had the privileged folks who had access to capital. And then you had others who were relegated to apartment buildings. And you had a job of course but it wasn' ; t enough to carry you through to walk into a lending office or--and sit down and tell me about your credit history and--it' ; s just non-existent. You know that' ; s why we didn' ; t accumulate and those who did were those African-Americans who either lived in down south and owned property for hundreds of years and they got educated there they would come in and buy into Harlem or the Puerto Ricans who lived in Harlem back then who knew you know. But it was it was rare. And then you had foreigners. Came from countries like where we came from Latin America, South America, Africa. Had a little bit more resource and was able to do things you know like buy their own property but for the most part that was a dream. Amy Starecheski: Tell me about how you first got into buying and flipping houses. Samuel Brooks: Well that came out of an opportunity because at the time I was not--at the time I was I was working for I think it was Morgan Stanley because I mentioned I left Citigroup in the late ' ; 90s, ' ; 96. I went to Morgan Stanley for about two years to a more expansive role and then they started doing downsizing in 2000, 2001. So there my colleague and friend and college alumni fellow alumni. He was working--he remained at Citi and says--and we partner up with another Colombian gentleman. Says why don' ; t we start looking to buy property in the Bronx. I will go find them, say this is it and they' ; ll provide the financing and you will buy it. And we read it like any other business--we had a strict model that we built, we would buy it at this price point--not a dollar more than a dollar less. I mean not a dollar more. Amy Starecheski: A dollar less is fine! (laughs) Samuel Brooks: Yeah--this is what we' ; re going to put into it, and we' ; ll find a buyer and we just sell it not to speculators, but to families you know. To this day, the property that I ended up buying was the property that I bought the first time for $125,000 as part of the portfolio that we were buying bought that for 125 with him and refinanced and then what we ended up doing is--there was there was a note on the property and we tried to sell it for I remember that clearly we wanted to sell that one for 250 brokers caved, people caved, said nah that' ; s too much money. And I said oh wow. So we had a college friend of ours who--she was looking for a place to stay with her kids. We said well the rent is cheap, the rent is the value of the mortgage. And she says yeah of course I' ; ll move in. And she lived there for about two years, and then she said it was just too much house for her and her two kids and that she wanted something much smaller. So I thought about it, I said you know what let me buy it out of the partnership. And that' ; s when I bought it as my as my home. So that was a deal that I that I that I did I bought it with no money because we knew all the mortgage brokers, they arranged all the financing and in no money down litterally for me in that case. So that' ; s how I ended up with it. Amy Starecheski: Who--who were you buying houses from when you were doing that at first? People or banks or--? Samuel Brooks: No--so we never we never we never we were we' ; re probably buying two houses--two to three houses a year. So it wasn' ; t like you know let' ; s just do this. We were buying homes from investors who had acquired a much cheaper price--they either bought them at an auction like you were buying it from them for 150 so they probably got it for like 80 and they had so much in their portfolio that the rate that it was going they were doing it--I mean these guys, I remember them--he would go to prison and talk to inmates who had property who were doing time. That' ; s how that' ; s how they used to do it. You think about it. And they say sure there' ; s the address, I' ; ll sell on the deed what you want to give me. Give it to my sister, my girlfriend and I' ; ll sell you the house. Others had leans that day they just couldn' ; t pay taxes and everything else will be auctioned off. They used to buy their portfolios. So we used to buy it from them, and then the proliferation of mortgage brokers--the financing it was always there. I remember one of the better deals that we sold for 380--large house, almost on two sides of the street on Bathgate Avenue. Family still lives there, every time I go there to have big parties say this is the man that made this possible. The house is worth substantially more--but that' ; s the kind of thing we did it was make some money but it' ; s not too truly, it wasn' ; t necessary. Not not not at all. Amy Starecheski: Was redlining still an issue at that point? Samuel Brooks: No because that was early 2000s. So. And you know, we worked in finance so we had some track level traction in that regard. The true true friend of ours was my colleagues, my colleagues landlord in Brooklyn. He was from Columbia on quite a lot of buildings in in in Brooklyn--5th Avenue, Park Slope and became very good friend. We all became extremely good--he passed away a few years ago, he multimillionaire. So he used to underwrite quite a couple of things there. So yeah. No we don' ; t. The only time we would have been when he bought his own townhouse on Jefferson Avenue. That was the extent of it. But it' ; s not--we didn' ; t have a need to to get traditional funding. It was just straight up transactional because it wasn' ; t that well--it wasn' ; t that much, because we could' ; ve take it from one side of the ledger to apply it to the other. So. Amy Starecheski: Did you--did you feel like at that point there was any risk in investing in this neighborhood? Samuel Brooks: No. Again we 15 20--we knew already that the people that--we we started hearing Harlem is becoming expensive 20 something years ago. 30 something years ago--like here--you could have got anywhere in Harlem. I mean I remember seeing people buying townhouses $140,000, 160--beautiful homes. That was like 30 years ago. And then all of a sudden, that stopped and then all of a sudden the wave went back up again and it was a cyclical market. You had your period that nobody wanted anything there. And now here they discover what I mean--If you go if you have a tall enough building you can see it, you could see Harlem. And that' ; s when this flood gates just started bursting and then the luxury apartments that they' ; re building now and now the rentals. I mean a one-bedroom apartment for $2600 and you have to pay your own utilities so you' ; re still coming out at like $3100. You know you need to be earning at least $140,000 to be able to live comfortably without compromising your lifestyle. I mean that' ; s just the way it is. And you have people that are doing it you know they had the means to do it. They go for it you know because I' ; ve always told people in meetings know friends of mine and those who we had this gentrification conversation--I don' ; t call it an argument, I always says you work on 58 Street, as an example, and you leave your office to go grab lunch you have such choices. But you live in the Bronx. You live further up but you don' ; t have that many choices. Why is that? You know why can' ; t you convince other people like you to to just become business owners and somehow and start opening up trendy cafes, trendy bars--again just because somebody opens Mottley as an example you know--who am I to say anything other than congratulations. Now I don' ; t have to really walk that far, I can literally cover my sandals in five minutes. I have a choice of La Morada, I have a choice of Mott Haven Bar and Grill, Gun Hill Tavern. The list goes on and it grows every week there' ; s some new thing opening up you know. And that' ; s just the way it is. You know I can' ; t stop it. I cannot. Amy Starecheski: Tell me more about your block. Like when you first bought there, what was 140th like? Samuel Brooks: Now you have to remember when I first bought on 140th, 18 years ago 16 18 years ago. I mean I knew everyone I literally knew all of the people that I that I that either went to school with--they didn' ; t live literally in these townhouses. So it was predominantly Puerto Ricans that owned the houses and a few African-Americans. But for the most part yeah I guess--Yeah wow yeah. I think I was probably the second second on my side of the street across the street. There was probably one or two and that was the extent of it. Everybody else was Puerto Rican, that had been living there when I was a kid and bought these houses in the ' ; 70s for like twelve or thirteen thousand. So the block was relatively quiet. It had always been because I used to have a conversations with some of the people who' ; d been living there for 50 something years who' ; d never lived on 140, but the thing about 140 is that all the bad things that used to happen in the 70s happened on 141 and 143rd up the hill on Cypress. But 140 was always a safe ground. You come in there. The people who were dealin' ; and the bad people would always say we' ; re going to protect this block between Willis and Brook Avenue on 140th. That' ; s why you see what you see is intact. You think about it. It' ; s--it just everything that you see there remain intact with the exception of the 29 other townhouses on both side of 139 and 140th that were torn down in the 60s to make way for the school and the park. But yeah it' ; s a it' ; s always been a safe haven. It was very quiet, because again I I speak the language right. So again and I have history and I was I' ; ve been connected to that 30 years earlier you know as a little kid I used to run up and down I just didn' ; t know--I would look at these things and they look like large buildings you know. And that' ; s just the way it was there was a lot of single room occupants. So the owner would live in the garden level and they would rent out rooms--that' ; s what the predominate--every, if you want to room you go to 140th. The little houses always had a room. My home had 18 rooms. This Cuban lady used to literally sit in the front, when you come to the first door she used to have a desk and she had 18 rooms including the basement itself. And supposedly she made quite a good living at it. And everybody else had rooms with much more conservative spaces. But she she killed it. And in the last 12 13 years now you started seeing the people that are coming in, people that have professional jobs. They started buying the townhouses, they started doing massive renovations doing decking, and changing mechanics, doing exterior work. I mean I would say in the last 7 years, a lot of the homes you will notice that--they used to be very colorful. And people now realize wait a minute, you know we' ; ve got to strip, let' ; s get to the original brick and start doing so you started seeing the changes. Started seeing the sidewalks more cleaner-- because everybody knows responsible when it snows everything gets picked up collectively because everybody does their part. So everyone that' ; s there now is an actual homeowner. There is no person there that' ; s just a complete rental--probably one, probably, but no for the most part everyone that lives there owns there and lives there. So that is probably the most radical change because they truly and finally understood the value of what they' ; ve acquired earlier in the last 12 years that they say wait a minute now everybody wants to come here, so they' ; re staying put. I remember the doctor when she bought her house across from me. She bought it from a gentleman who was. A U.N. a U.N. ambassador. Not an ambassador a diplomat. He bought the house that the doctor is now living in from a lady that he befriended, bought the house for $100,000. Which is a steal. And she gave him all of the contents of the house, amazing antiques. He had is his house a couple of doors down. He sold the house put it on the market for $200,000, the doctor bought it for 205. The doctor wanted to then flip it for like 300 or 250 or whatever I remember making that phone call and calling her at the time and she wanted to just leave because at the time the neighborhood was still you know I guess she didn' ; t understand what she actually had and then eventually said well wait a minute, I' ; m not going anywhere. So those are the kind of stories of the people who just come in. Then you have others that have come in the last two years three years that want to you know lay down rules and regulations and things of that nature says characters now that are homeowners. That want to--I say no, sometimes you see those people across the street by the church sitting there, you gotta get up and say hello to them because as I mentioned when all these deliveries that are being sent with Amazon and all those things when they leave your things on your steps you know that' ; s the person who' ; s going to say leave it there I' ; ll are sign, because I' ; m here all day and I know what time X comes in. And that' ; s just the way it is now you know. Amy Starecheski: What kind of rules and regulations? Samuel Brooks: Mean you could see that you know it' ; s it' ; s live--there' ; s one or two of them, that little flavor of arrogance you know oh I' ; ve got this I paid this much money, I put in this much money into the house now it' ; s a beautiful home and I just want to invite a lot of my friends to come and enjoy wine with me in the yard. That kind of thing is you know it' ; s--things like that are not necessary because you learn the lesson the hard way. You know at the end of the day, there' ; s still going to be people walking up and down that have been in this neighborhood for before I even got here. And you' ; re always gotta keep that conscious of mind you know. But I do see the effects of gentrification by by virtue of the prices of the units, the rental units because most people are now using the garden level as as separate unit even though it' ; s still a one family. Some of us are turning it into a short-term rental with tremendous income potential there. So you asked the question right, so does that mean that you' ; re displacing some market rate apartment or an apartment that could have gone--so that' ; s a that' ; s a moving target if you ask me. Right. Because I lived there for 16 years with no one living in my house. The downstairs all I had was a bathroom and a big TV room. That' ; s the place where most of my friends will come in watch football game, parties, and what have you. And that' ; s what it became, and after a while my two kids you know they' ; re upstairs in their room and they abandoned the place. I say wait a minute you know because most of the people that had that that came in in the last 13 years immediately they turned that into a separate unit to help with the mortgage because they bought at a higher price point than I did. You still got to make the payment but--so I never even contemplated turning that into a one-bedroom apartment because most of them didn' ; t and back then the rent was probably about nine hundred, eleven hundred--now some of them again in twenty three hundred dollars. And others are just doing the short-term staying and making a lot more than that. So it' ; s just it' ; s just how you choose now to--and even if you had it on the market, the people who would come in and move in there are not the same people who' ; ve been in the community for that period of time because you' ; re not going to rent it out for five hundred dollars like 1998 prices. It' ; s not going to happen you know unless you just into charity and that' ; s what you do and that' ; s the way you want to live it and that' ; s fine but a setup like that is virtually impossible. It is virtually impossible. Amy Starecheski: Can you tell me--like walk me through like your daily routine and like say it' ; s a lovely Saturday or Sunday in June--what is life like spending a day on your block? Samuel Brooks: What happens now with the with the addition of of Motleys Kitchen, typically--I tell you a typical Sunday in the summertime the last five years as an example because of the work that I do with the historic preservation I partnered up with the tourism company by a person from Ecuador who came here as a child as well in ' ; 71 and she started this Bronx historical tours. So at about 11:00 when she begins her tours on 130, a very small group anywhere from two people to four or five people she by about 11:00 she starts coming onto 140th--and I' ; m always waiting because when they come in, I get introduced to them and then I just talk to them about you know 140th and how long I' ; ve been here, not only as a homeowner but about the neighborhood, and the change in the community and so on--it' ; s like about a 10 minute conversation. And then I just sit on the stoop and just do a lot of people watching. Believe it or not just sit there. I may have one of the guys--Walter--that you that you knew from from the church or Johnny. They may sit with me and we' ; ll have some Coors Light and just people watch and then you start seeing the tour the other the tour that I did on Thursday. I tell everyone-- it was 30 about 38 people. All right. And I tell them 140th, you know I call it the whiplash block. And they would say what do you mean. Well we will coming into 140th from Willis after we did Alexander Avenue. Says okay before we go into 140 stand right here until the light changes, we' ; ll cross over, take a look down the block and everybody says wow this is a gorgeous block and I say exactly, so anytime somebody drives up or down Willis or is on a bicycle they come in and take a gander and they look at all and then you see them turnin' ; back around and it coming on the block and those on bicycles break because you don' ; t you don' ; t expect it. You literally don' ; t. And then now you start seein' ; them on Saturdays now and on Sundays--now there are two abandoned front--not abandoned but boarded up properties for 427 and 415 and everybody' ; s wondering who owns that. Wow. You know it' ; s like can I just have it, what' ; s going on here. And with the addition of Motley Kitchen out there, there' ; s a lot more activity it just people just literally just it' ; s just people and you could tell that they' ; re not from the neighborhood. They don' ; t live in the Bronx for the most part. If they do they' ; re probably teachers. But there' ; s just Ubers coming to, people going into the coffee shop, sitting there for hours and there' ; s no traffic. You know, you could be sitting there and you could see a white person two three four five six of them walk up and down something you never saw 10 years ago. Like individual just walking--and they' ; re just walking comfortably which is which is a difference right. There is no threat. You know they know that maybe something dubious is happening if you cross through the park and go there you know but you just. But you could literally tell you could tell. That' ; s why I wake up early in the morning and I just sit there my legs crossed you know and I just sit there read my magazines or read my times on my phone or whatever just to people watch. And you can see them in their minds looking at the homes and all that kind of stuff. So. I find that fascinating actually. And then in the evenings I go to my local bar--gets the best happy hour there and so it' ; s a typical Saturday, typical Sunday. Amy Starecheski: Which bar is your local bar? Samuel Brooks: I actually like Mott Haven Bar and Grill because they--I obviously know the owner well, they were sort of like the spark. But before it was called Bruckner. And but that was in the early beginnings and now when she came in six years ago that' ; s when the whole thing started and it became a teacher' ; s Friday' ; s is always crowded and they have by far the best happy hours, like 50 percent off. And Mondays and Wednesdays it goes till 10:00, Saturdays and Sundays from 8:00 to 10:00 at night. So think about it. And then you have new ones that are popping up everywhere now, you have a diversity, now you could go from a Cetay, to a steak house, to a pub, to a brewery to--always just the list is going on and on. There' ; s two more that are supposed to open by August on Bruckner Boulevard. There' ; s a new Smokehouse that' ; s come in on Alexander Avenue. There is a gourmet next to the Lit Bar, we got a bookstore. You know it' ; s just like watching this in real time. I mean to see that accelerate so quickly, it' ; s just it' ; s just crazy. I mean and now the addition of the park that just opened last week, I mean these kids are having a blast and I' ; m just hoping that the adults the young men who sit there and do what they do could at least have some understanding that their cousin, or you know their kids are actually enjoying that part of the park. And just hands off as far as vandalism--not that that happens now because the one thing everyone is learned--there are cameras everywhere. Cameras everywhere. So every time you see a crime is committed in a subway right or somebody does something on the street and you see them runnin' ; . Right. And you would think rarely if you into doing that kind of crime and you see it on TV all the time, but yet you' ; re it the next week or whatever and you know you would think--subways especially, running through the token booth. There are cameras everywhere, everywhere. Yeah I mean it does curb crime of course. But there' ; s a lot of cameras now that a lot of homeowners have put out--it' ; s like any time something happens the just, the police know exactly who has them and they go they review videos, pull videos, and not just of the homeowners but the store owners around the corner, the street lights that have camera, it' ; s just surveillance top and down, left and right. Amy Starecheski: I know we' ; re almost out of time, I have like two or three more questions. You' ; re married, right? Tell me like how did you meet your wife, when did you get married. We' ; ve left out your family a bit, obviously your kids you' ; ve already mentioned. Samuel Brooks: Yeah yeah, my youngest is twenty three. She just she so she for the most part she obviously spent 17 18 years so she spent she came in relatively young and my son is 20 28. So they spent a considerable amount of time growing up in that house. They' ; ve always lived in the Bronx. So my sister is very good friends with my wife' ; s older sister. They go back. We all go back from our times in Central America, Honduras. So my sister and her older sister are very best--they were the best friends as little kids and everything. My wife and her family moved to Bathgate Avenue back in the 60s--they were the first homeowners that bought property on Bathgate and bought the two lots that were next to. So anybody that came to the United States in the 70s every Sunday that' ; s where you would go congregate. I' ; ve always had sort of kind of like girlfriends and all that stuff that I had from the college or because I didn' ; t live among them I was always traveling somewhere and what have you. And when I was in my thirties, I started saying you know what I think I' ; m getting a little bit tired, so let me figure something out here. So I went out on a date with her--you know because they all knew each other, would say oh I think that' ; s a good match for you. I said okay. And that was it. I say you know what. Enough is enough. Now when I bought the house I say I got it, we got a good deal on it, she did not--she just say oh my god, the house oh it was just a wreck. And I said it has potential. No I don' ; t like it here, this and that, why did we come--you know is this like one of those kind of things, I said just give us some time. And that was it. So she also she is in banking as well. She worked for Citi, she' ; s worked for Chase for a number of years but she works out of the retail branch in Mamaroneck. And my kids all went to--they went to Catholic school since kindergarten all the way up until they both went to Spelman. And my son went to graduated from Lehman and my daughter. graduated from City College and she' ; s been athletic and all of that kind of stuff. And my son he wasn' ; t into that and now they you know they radically just buying their time now and he' ; s looking for an apartment and realizing how expensive it is. Says you got all the space you want here. Well you know they' ; re at that age now they wanna do--my daughter has the same thing now that she' ; s finished she' ; s waiting for the open exam for the NYPD. So she' ; s always wanted to do law enforcement, because she also figured out if I could put in 20 something years I' ; d still be young in my 40s and then figure out something else. So that' ; s her logic and that' ; s it. I mean we' ; re very simple we mean I I I think that--they said the other day you know you' ; re the social person, you don' ; t spend time in the house, you' ; re always go into events and I say well you know it' ; s part of being a community person kind of a thing. So you' ; ll always see me going at some new opening or something or giving a tour or speaking to someone or walking somebody through the neighborhood or doing an interview and what have you--it' ; s just what I do you know. So the plan is to wait it out another 10 years and at that time, we' ; ll have a lot of choices in terms of you know downsizing in terms of lifestyle and giving everything away and just get a small space somewhere that' ; s warm that allows us to go anywhere real quick. So that' ; s the story and I' ; m sticking to it. Amy Starecheski: Does your wife like hang out on the block? Samuel Brooks: No she she she drives to work so she she drives to work. Comes back in the evening, because of the traffic and what have you. She may in the summertime, stop by Bathgate see her mother spend some time there come to the house six seven. I when I get out of work, I either go across the street with some colleagues and you know--or just come to Mott Haven and meet somebody there or go to another one of bars and by about Seven thirty, eight o' ; clock, I' ; m normally home on this I' ; m hanging out with someone weekends. I try to you know stay home during the day then go outside of doing something figuring something. And then it is like an activity or a party that we that we would go to I would do that. But no. For most I am always hanging out but it' ; s always local. I could get home within minutes if I have to. Amy Starecheski: Did you worry about raising your raising your kids here. Did you have conversations with them about like what to get into and not to get into? Samuel Brooks: No because again they were very isolated in that regard you know because they were my daughter and son and my wife she would drive them to--because they went to Spellman High School, but when they got to Spelman they were able to go on their own. But before that they went to Mount Carmel on Bathgate Avenue. So it was always a controlled environment for them. They spent a lot of time on Bathgate as they were growing up and at night we would all meet and come back to 140th. So they did not hang out on a 140th. They know you know the same people that you know like Walter you know the regular new homeowner because they all know what my kids look like. They just go to work or school when they did and come home so their friends would come to the house, their friends but not like somebody from across the street or anything and they never do. Amy Starecheski: Can you tell me about your house like, what--you said it was a wreck when you bought it. What was it like when you bought it and what is it like now? Samuel Brooks: Well it was a wreck when I bought it but it had great bones right. So the first thing after a couple of months there and saying listen this is this a huge space you know we never had space like this. So on the parlor floor we had a lot of the original moldings and what have you but they were thick with paint. So I would say let' ; s begin to strip and lets invite friends. We used to have people come over, we used to hang out and we used to strip. I think I spent like six years just stripping. So the first major thing we did was the way the top floor was configured. It was four bedrooms and the toilet was separate from it. It was just a mess. So we demo' ; d the whole top floor and at the time I was using people that I that I knew that used to do work with some of the homes that we used to go in and out. So the work was in like a contractor type but it was very good work. But I just had the Mexican friends of ours who we used to help write contracts when they used to get other jobs and that kind of thing. So it was almost exactly that. So we redid the entire top floor, so the front became the master bedroom with a walk in closet and they middle room became my daughters with a big skylight and the back room became my son' ; s and then we' ; d modernize the electrical and that have you. And then then downstairs the garden level it was very very simple. So I then decided the easiest thing to do is knock all the walls down and just turn it into an open box. Which we did and we hung out there for a good 10, 12 year run, just people just to hang out. Every New Year' ; s Eve party was there anybody says Sam anybody gonna use that--it became what it became. And then after a while the kids had their on TV, their own friends, their own laptops and then the frequency of going downstairs to sit and watch something it wasn' ; t an appealing to them anymore. So then I said to my wife well I think we should do a short term rental or something so you know let' ; s just do that. So then we made another investment and upgraded downstairs of course. Had to re-do the flooring and put in a kitchen, open kitchen concept and the old yard, the backyard we needed to spruce it up you know lay down pavers, build a deck and the whole works. So that happened. The next thing that that will get done now is the parlor floor even though the wood is all natural. Now is the kitchen. You know we' ; re just going to demo the kitchen and do a new kitchen because you' ; ve had the same starter cabinet on purpose just there--but it' ; s because it' ; s so huge you know talking about 17 by 20. So what do you do with that space and then put a deck and I think we' ; ll be done by then and just enjoy that for a few years and then. See what the next chapter brings. So I mean we take pride I mean I' ; ve been painting my real is as you probably saw--I started that nine years ago when I was inspired and motivated and I went through a dull period of about nine eight and a half years and three weeks ago I said you know what I' ; m going to go to Home Depot--I' ; m going to take this project up again. Amy Starecheski: Is there anything that you had on your mind to talk about that I haven' ; t asked about anything, or anything you want to chat about? Samuel Brooks: No it' ; s it' ; s because I obviously I got a sense of of listening to the others. So I sort of--and I read the PDF. So I sort of got a sense in terms of where I was. Saying when I first got here and then different pieces you know, personal and professional and social. So that was part of what I expected so it wasn' ; t bad. Amy Starecheski: Good, I' ; m glad it wasn' ; t bad. Oh can you can you say like " ; my name is Samuel Brooks" ; , Sam Brooks, just so I have it on tape. Samuel Brooks: My name is Samuel Brooks. Amy Starecheski: Thanks. Anything else? Samuel Brooks: No, unless a story comes to mind or something. Amy Starecheski: Yeah we could always do more, I mean this is easy--it looks like a big rigmaroll of equipment, but this is easy to set up so we can always add more. Samuel Brooks: Yep. Amy Starecheski: Yeah. Thank you so much. Samuel Brooks: No no. Thank you. I mean I' ; ve been promising to do it so-- Amy Starecheski: No it was really great to get to hear your stories and I' ; m excited to work with them. Samuel Brooks: Nice. Amy Starecheski: Yeah. Any time you want to add more, just let me know. Very good. I think I' ; ll turn it off. audio 0 motthavenhistory.org/ohms/render.php?cachefile=Brooks_Samuel_20190611.xml Brooks_Samuel_20190611.xml
Location
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Bronx, NY
Duration
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117 minutes
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Title
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Samuel Brooks Oral History Interview
Date
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2019-06-11
Format
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audio
Subject
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Samuel Brooks was born in Honduras in 1962 to a land-owning, bilingual English- and Spanish-speaking black family - his family had migrated there via England, Grenada and the Panama Canal. His father died when he was young, and in 1974 the family relocated to the United States, to a Honduran community in the South Bronx. Eight months later their apartment was burned, and they moved to 140th Street between Cypress and St. Ann’s Avenue. His mother worked as a home health attendant. He grew up around early graffiti and hip hop artists, went to Alexander Burger Junior High School and South Bronx High School and attended Stony Brook University. He has worked in the financial and education industries since graduating college, and came back to Mott Haven as a house flipper in the early 2000s while working at Citigroup. He bought and slowly renovated a landmarked house on 140th Street between Brook and Willis and raised his children in Mott Haven. He is the founder and president of the Mott Haven Historical Districts Association, and regularly leads walking tours of the neighborhood. He still hangs out with his old friends who grew up in the neighborhood, and also with newer fellow-homeowners. You can usually find him on his stoop.
Description
An account of the resource
In this interview Samuel Brooks discusses experiences as a Honduran immigrant to New York City. Brooks maps his own upbringing against the changing landscape and demographics of Mott Haven from the 1970s to the time of the interview. Brooks describes his family and daily life in Mott Haven both then and now. As an investor in real estate, Brooks pays particular attention to the forces of gentrification in Mott Haven, and details how the demographics of the neighborhood have changed.